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| Scarf Joint vs One Piece Neck? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5150 |
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| Author: | ATaylor [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:05 pm ] |
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OK, a new subject to get everyone off the agony of defeat from not winning the wood drawing: What type of neck do you build with most often and why? I've read various excerpts regarding the benefits of both: Solid piece: stronger, won't break at the scarf when dropped. Scarf: stronger, saves wood, won't break through the short-grained head when dropped. As a newbie, I've used pre-carved necks until now. I have a nice hunk of quartersawn aged and kiln-dried Walnut that I plan to turn to shavings and, hopefully, a neck soon. I'm thinking scarf just to conserve wood. Interested to hear the forum's opinions... |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:11 pm ] |
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I prefer the 1 pc neck |
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| Author: | Dave Anderson [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:19 pm ] |
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I like the look of a one piece neck. |
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| Author: | Jimmy Caldwell [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:21 pm ] |
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Alan, I use both methods. Properly done, both methods work well. The scarf joint takes a while to figure out, but after you do, it's really not difficult. In my opinion,the scarf joint is stronger, but they are both plenty strong under normal conditions. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:25 pm ] |
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I like a scarf joint but with a laminated neck.... The laminates are one piece, no cut at the scarf. It may not be any stronger but it looks like it should be. |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:40 pm ] |
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Actually I prefer a five piece vertically laminated one piece neck. No button for that. |
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| Author: | RussellR [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:47 pm ] |
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I Voted for Scarf but I actually stack my headstock and the cut the angle. |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:50 pm ] |
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One pc, 3 or 5 pc vertical laminate, or scarf with one piece or even stacked heel - whatever I get paid for, I dont really care. But seriously, I prefer the 3 or 5 piece look, mahogany with dark accent lines. As well, my headstock shape requires wings, which are glued across the short grain area, making it stronger - for me its the best. Only uses 1 inch stock too - cheaper than 12/4. |
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| Author: | ATaylor [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:54 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Bruce Dickey] Actually I prefer a five piece vertically laminated one piece neck. No button for that.[/QUOTE] Dang, forgot that option. I would include that w/ one-piece for now I guess... |
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| Author: | BruceH [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:06 pm ] |
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Well... I prefer a one-piece neck, but I got a good deal on some mahogany... so the next five will be scarf joint stacked heel. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:13 pm ] |
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I do a laminated neck and backstrap the headstock. |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 1:50 pm ] |
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I use a Romanillos style V joint. I used to use a german "covered" v joint (a la Hauser) but it took much longer to fit so have adapted to the Romanillos V joint. I build classical. |
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| Author: | ecklesweb [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:06 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=ATaylor] Solid piece: stronger, won't break at the scarf when dropped.[/QUOTE] I'd be shocked to see a properly joined scarf glued with a modern PVA glue break. I think youd be more likely to break the wood on either side of the joint! Then again, you can probably guess which I voted for 
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| Author: | RCoates [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:12 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=Shawn] I use a Romanillos style V joint. I used to use a german "covered" v joint (a la Hauser) but it took much longer to fit so have adapted to the Romanillos V joint. I build classical.[/QUOTE] You ever get bored, you can feel free to post a pictorial how to on this. I'd love to learn how to do it. |
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| Author: | Sylvan [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:21 pm ] |
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My preference is for a 5 ply neck - just like Bruce describes! |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:30 pm ] |
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I built a 4 piece lamination horizontal with maple and yellow carpenter's glue and it still looks strong after 2 months strung up! |
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| Author: | Josh H [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:17 pm ] |
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I use a 2-piece. Neck and peghead are one piece, and the heel is the other. Josh |
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| Author: | old man [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:12 pm ] |
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I've roughed out two one piece necks, two just like Josh described, one laminated mahogany and birds-eye maple, and two scarf joint, stacked heel cherry necks. I prefer the one piece, though. Ron 
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| Author: | jfrench [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:33 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=RCoates] [QUOTE=Shawn] I use a Romanillos style V joint. I used to use a german "covered" v joint (a la Hauser) but it took much longer to fit so have adapted to the Romanillos V joint. I build classical.[/QUOTE] You ever get bored, you can feel free to post a pictorial how to on this. I'd love to learn how to do it.[/QUOTE] V-Joint Discussion |
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| Author: | RCoates [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:46 pm ] |
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Thnx |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:33 pm ] |
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Scarf jointed, all of them. I don't like the idea of short grain in the headstock, and it lets me waste a whole lot less wood (and, well, lacking a bandsaw, a 1-piece is a major pain in the butt). Even the laminated headstock necks are scarf jointed, because again, strength. I'll be backstrapping the next few to 'hide' the joint and add a little more stability. I also have no compunctions about doing stacked heels; if I get flatsawn stock, I make laminated necks, cutting out L-shaped laminates and scarfing later. If I get quartered stock (thin), scarf and a stacked heel. A good scarf, especially if you glue on peghead ears anyway, and have veneers on front and back, is pretty dang close to invisible. Or, y'know, you can make a feature of it, like Jimmy Caldwell does. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:36 pm ] |
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[QUOTE=ATaylor] Solid piece: stronger, won't break at the scarf when dropped. Scarf: stronger, saves wood, won't break through the short-grained head when dropped. [/QUOTE] Thoughts on this: solid piece will break short-grain if it breaks, and most carpenter's glues won't break at the scarf join itself either. Never seen that happen, or really heard of it happen. If it's glued on with Hot Hide, it's more likely to 'simply' release at the joint, but do it cleanly, is my understanding, which seems like a major repairability advantage. That kind of shock would probably break a short-grained neck. All that being said, thousands (if not millions) of 1-piece necks out there are doing just fine. But many, many, many Gibson electric guitar 1-piece necks are not. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:44 pm ] |
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I voted for scarf as that is the joint I most commonly use. However, I also have 4 Martins all with solid necks, three of which have survived 70 years unscathed, as have many thousands of other solid neck guitars. I believe that many people have got paranoid over short grain in necks, if you use good wood and don't mistreat the guitar it should be fine. The stacked and cut out head like John Kinnead and others use (Russell here for one) is also fine and dandy. Most of us that do scarfs also use stacked heels without a problem. That said, I have a long held need to try some V-jointed necks and have the thicker timber sitting here to do it. Just need the kick up the backside to take the plunge. The ability to do a good V-joint (like Joshua's) is something that all luthiers should aspire to. Colin |
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| Author: | A Peebels [ Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:52 pm ] |
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If you want strong, try this. Some of my necks are 3 peice vertical laminations walnut or mahogany on the outside, maple, purpleheart, or rosewood in the center, glued up with west systems epoxy and carbon fiber cloth between the layers. Al |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:03 am ] |
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I like scarf joints. Sometimes I scarf up a neck and then split it and insert solid laminates of thin contrasting wood. That keeps the laminate line from creeping when you stack the heel and glue on the peghead. I really want to start doing the German V joint but have not had the time to learn the technique |
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